Evidence for God from Science

Homosexuality: Both groups consider homosexual behavior to be hated by God and a major sin.

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that, in most cases, a homosexual orientation is not chosen, is not changeable and is not, in itself, sinful. The church regards all homosexual behavior to be intrinsically sinful. They consider a homosexual orientation to be a disordered state. Homosexual support groups in the Church promote celibacy.

Most conservative Protestants downplay the concept of sexual orientation and emphasize same-sex behavior -- i.e. what people do is more important than what they feel. Most believe that homosexual behavior is indirectly caused by poor parenting and/or sexual abuse during childhood. They view such behavior as chosen, abnormal, unnatural, and changeable. Their homosexual support groups emphasize changing behavior with the goal of opposite-sex marriage.

Though being a Catholic plays a part in my position, it isn't the end-all be-all.

I lean towards the Catholic views, but the conservative Protestants seem to have very little difference to me.

Forge wrote:Though being a Catholic plays a part in my position, it isn't the end-all be-all.

I lean towards the Catholic views, but the conservative Protestants seem to have very little difference to me.

In terms of homosexuality, the basic difference is Roman Catholics believe that homosexuals cannot change their sexuality in order to become heterosexuals, so celibacy should be preached to them. Protestants tend to believe that homosexuals can become heterosexuals with enough self-effort, so heterosexuality should be preached to gays and lesbians.

Really? I remember reading a Catholic pamphlet somewhere that says that there has been some (Catholic) success in changing a person's orientation. Hmm...

The stated catholic position has to be a sad one...someone comes to them asking for help, only to be told, "You're screwed, you can't change, you will sin, and it's still wrong even though it's not really your fault."

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:The stated catholic position has to be a sad one...someone comes to them asking for help, only to be told, "You're doomed, you can't change, you will sin, and it's still wrong even though it's not really your fault."

Well, that's a difference. The homosexual orientation isn't a sin, but homosexual activity is. Thus, the call to celibacy.

Forge wrote:

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:The stated catholic position has to be a sad one...someone comes to them asking for help, only to be told, "You're doomed, you can't change, you will sin, and it's still wrong even though it's not really your fault."

Well, that's a difference. The homosexual orientation isn't a sin, but homosexual activity is. Thus, the call to celibacy.

Hey, that's cool, I said screwed (s-c-r-e-w-e-d) but it popped up doomed.

Uh, you've seemed to have verbally outmaneuveredme.

"You can't change, but you can be celibate!" UGH! Are you kidding me? Where's the hope in that???

Protestant view hands down. And I'm living proof, so there.

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:The stated catholic position has to be a sad one...someone comes to them asking for help, only to be told, "You're doomed, you can't change, you will sin, and it's still wrong even though it's not really your fault."

Catholic dogma states that homosexuals cannot change their sexuality, because God is omnipotent, so he likely knowingly created them to be gay or lesbian in the first place. Since God is good and he supposedly created them to be homosexual, being homosexual (that is, being attracted to the same sex but not engaging in homosexual sex) must not be sinful. That's why they promotes celibacy, so homosexuals will not sin and deprave their bodies. Since homosexual Christians are still saved regardless of their sexual orientation, they are destined for heaven in spite of their sexual shortcomings.

However, I've seen reformed homosexuals being interviewed on televangelist programs, so I'm swayed more toward the Protestant idea. Orthodox Christians seem mixed on their view of homosexuality.

Catholic dogma states that homosexuals cannot change their sexuality, because God is omnipotent, so he likely knowingly created them to be gay or lesbian in the first place.

And He knew that Billy would have problems with alcohol and drug abuse, and He knew that Madeline would be a prostitute, and He knew that Johnny would be addicted to porn. Of course God knew what our struggles would be -- to state that a person can't overcome these struggles and change, though, is patently absurd! It's also unbiblical.

Romans 12:2 -- "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Matthew 19:26 -- "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

<B>And my favorite verse on the subject:</B>

II Corinthians 5:17 -- "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

So yes, change is most certainly possible. Not merely possible, though, but guaranteed! Jesus gave us victory over all things, even homosexuality, and we just need to claim that victory! I was a murderer, but am a murderer no more! I was a liar, but am a liar no more! I was a thief, but am a thief no more! And I was a homosexual, but am a homosexual no more!

What a despicable unbiblical belief, to try to limit God's transforming power like that. Deceitful...underhanded...harmful...and just plain wrong.

I guess I'm the only one eh?

Everyone has their own weird behavior that they have from birth. Homosexuality is like a detrimental obsessive compulsive disorder (say cutting yourself, not something as relatively innocuous as turning off and on the lights seven times before leaving the room). It's core cannot be changed because that's been in you, it can be supressed and it can be overcome, but it will still be there. Its the same way addicts must turn completely away from their vice or they'll instantly get addicted again. It's just there.

So instead the Roman Catholic Church preaches will power. More power to you right? Instead of saying you can get rid of it, the Roman Catholic Church says that through Christ you are strong enough to overcome your own personal shortcomings. Instead of victory the protestant way, the Roman Catholic preaches a victory through the mind heart and spirit over the bodies imperfections.

Not much difference, but still. I prefer to lean towards the Roman Catholic train of thought.

i think they are both right/both wrong. people are far too complicated to be bunched into such rigid descriptions. i think homosexuality is both biological and environmental; some people can help it/some can't. some people know why they are homosexual/some don't.

i think it's a sin, but d**n, why is everyone so obscessed by it! i really want to know.

Prodigal Son wrote:i think they are both right/both wrong. people are far too complicated to be bunched into such rigid descriptions. i think homosexuality is both biological and environmental; some people can help it/some can't. some people know why they are homosexual/some don't.

i think it's a sin, but d**n, why is everyone so obscessed by it! i really want to know.

I guess you're right.

And I'm not obsessed with it, it's just that everyone talks about it instead of equally pressing issues, such as the popularity of oral sex (a sin).

i know, dude! do we not have greater problems?! it is a good topic to quarrel about, though. people like that.