Has this scientist found evidence of God?

truthordare · Post by **truthordare** » Tue May 31, 2005 5:31 am

Hi all! I'd really like your thoughts on this. I've long been skeptical about the creationist claims of the bible, although I've been very interested in the spiritual aspect of Christianity and believe in the Message of Christ. Now my more materialistic convictions have been shaken by an article I came across by a 'real' scientist who claims to have discovered substantive evidence of a creator. The original article - actually an extract from a book - is only available on a paid subscription site, so I've C&Ped it into a blogger page. I'd really like to hear what people think of it: http://sciencethefuture.blogspot.com/

Kelly · Post by **Kelly** » Tue May 31, 2005 12:26 pm

This argument follows the pattern of many previous arguments along the same lines: pattern--> order-->design-->designer-->god.

How does this differ? We know nature has patterns; how does this prove the existence of a designer?

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Tue May 31, 2005 12:36 pm

Science cannot prove nor disprove God because God isn't part of nature. Science is the study of the natural world, while God is supernatural. The only thing science can do is provide indirect evidence for God and you'll see that's a hot issue here and everywhere else.

August · Post by **August** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:04 pm

Science cannot prove nor disprove God because God isn't part of nature. Science is the study of the natural world, while God is supernatural.

Can you please expand on this? Why is God defined as supernatural? Are His works then also supernatural?

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:06 pm

Definition of supernatural: not existing in nature or subject to explanation according to natural laws; not physical or material; "supernatural forces and occurrences and beings"

God is above all natural laws, He created them, He is transcendant. Nature is contained within the universe, but God is not. He is beyond the universe and so is beyond our understanding unless He reveals His glorious self to us.

August · Post by **August** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:08 pm

Ok, but how do we define what exists in nature or not?

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:14 pm

August wrote:Ok, but how do we define what exists in nature or not?

Everything that is contained within the universe I guess, that's how I would define it, care to correct me?

1 Kings 8:27 "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!"

August · Post by **August** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:44 pm

Everything that is contained within the universe I guess, that's how I would define it, care to correct me?

No, I can't correct you, it's a question I struggle with myself. Do we we define the Big Bang, or the origin of life as being within nature or not? Were they supernatural events or not?

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Tue May 31, 2005 4:00 pm

Technically, the laws of nature themselves are supernatural as they cannot explain themselves (like a husband who arrives home at 3am

). So the creation of the natural is a supernatural event, orchestrated by none other than God himself. It's also probable that life cannot be explained by natural laws and so is supernatural as well.

Everything that God does that defies the laws of nature that He set in place, let's call them miracles, is supernatural.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Tue May 31, 2005 6:07 pm

Sheesh, why not just say science deals with material aspects of the universe.

August · Post by **August** » Tue May 31, 2005 6:10 pm

Sheesh, why not just say science deals with material aspects of the universe.

Can you define how you understand material?

j316 · Post by **j316** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:52 am

Dan wrote:Technically, the laws of nature themselves are supernatural as they cannot explain themselves (like a husband who arrives home at 3am ). So the creation of the natural is a supernatural event, orchestrated by none other than God himself. It's also probable that life cannot be explained by natural laws and so is supernatural as well.

Everything that God does that defies the laws of nature that He set in place, let's call them miracles, is supernatural.

You seem to be saying that the 'natural world' is a subset of the supernatural, since it is created, perceived and defined by the supernatural. It would be easier to simply say that what we call the supernatural is the true reality and our current reality is just a bubble in it.

I would say that is quite in accordance with scripture.

jors23 · Post by **jors23** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:24 pm

what? i think you guys are getting to carried away here. that article was one of the most boring things i've ever read. it said alot without saying much at all. i did scan down and see the part about 4 being the most magical number in the universe and then going on to give examples about 1/4. well .25 does not equal 4. so i don't see on what grounds 4 is the most magical number. i thought PHI was. that's 1.618. which is supposed to be the divine proportion. as far as supernatural stuff goes, it's usually things that transcend the laws of physics and nature. sometimes what seems supernatural can easily be explained by physics and science. what usually can't be explained is usually chalked up to supernatural. god can't be explained, he's beyond our comprehension, so he's considered supernatural. the line between natural and supernatural is very distinct and can usually be observed using common sense.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:14 pm

August wrote:Can you define how you understand material?

Things that are of the universe, i.e. things that can be sensed in some way, shape, or form.
Ugh, I'm gonna get mauled.