Paul

[JBirdAngel]

Okay,i could use some help understanding Paul, for the most part i can get everything else ive read in the Bible to make sense, then when i come to things that Paul says, most of it doesnt make any sense to me, and often times it seems to go against the rest of the Bible to me.... here are some of the issues that confuse me....


in Genesis it clearly talks about Adam and Eve eating fruit/food, in Revelations it talks about the water of life, as well as the tree(s) of life which have different fruit for each moneth of the year i believe, i believe that this hints at the fact taht we would eat this fruit and stuff, the point is that to me th Bible says that in the beginning and in the end we will eat food, yet in i think its Corinthians, Paul says that food is for the stomach, the stomach for food, but he then says that God has no permanent purpose for either, which i dont think that goes along with the rest of the Bible, Heaven, is basically God newly restoring his perfect creation, aka the Garden of Eden, except this time of course no sin will occur, but its God making new his creation and restoring it to the perfection he created it to have and desires for it to have, and sin will be gone forever, eating food is a part of God's design, Adam and Eve at food before sin, Jesus ate food after being ressurected, and i believe Revelations points to us eating food in Heaven, even if it didnt, i believe that it is a part of God's creation, and is of course not sinful, so that we will still eat, so why then does Paul say that it has no permanent purpose? or does this mean more that like in Heaven we wont eat because if we dont we die? does it just mean we eat more just cuz we like to? i dunno, with my thoughts on how everything is, i do not htink God messed anything up when he created everything, plus i dont think he does anything without a purpose, plus i fully bleieve that we had the choice in the Garden of wether to sin or not, and that if we had not sinned, i fully believe we would have lived in the Garden of Eden/on this earth, forever with God in perfection, but the point is we did choose to sin and brought up this earth as it is now, that God will have to remake, so God created us to eat food, and the way the Bible even talks about it, it sounds like there is acutal food adn drink that helps enable us to live forever, the Garden of Eden


and Revelations both refer to there being specific food and drink of life that we will use to live forever in paradise with God so i dont understand why Paul then says that there is no permanent purpose for it
i do not believe God created anything wihtout a purpose, or that he created anything simply to destroy it
all things that God created were in the Garden of Eden, and will be in Heaven, except for maybe the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which really is just the ability to sin... and as we have already eaten from that tree we wouldnt need to eat from it again if thats how it was
so i ujust dont get what Paul means, because according to the rest of the Bible, God has a purpose for eating
so why does Paul decide that he doesnt, even though the rest of the Bible tells us that he does
atleast thats how i see it


1st Corinthians 6:12 is where the part with Paul saying food has no purpose starts, my Bible doesnt actually label each and every verse, so i cant tel you exactly which verse it ends at, but that is where it starts





i mean honestly the more and more i read of Paul's stuff the less i think he really knows about God's actual plan
because most of what he says doesnt seem to go along with like waht Jesus said and alot of other things in the Bible

i like that at some points Paul says straight out this is my opinion and not from God and says his views about marriage and stuff, but he also says that he thinks what he is saying is correct in the views of the Spirit, and being in the Bible i think most people tend to think that the things he says are true, but all i see is that for the most part the things he says contradict alot of other things in the Bible, maybe i just dont understand how he means them, which is why im asking for help, because at this point it seems im headed toward deciding that Paul clearly knows nothing of God's plan, that he didnt even read the rest of the scriptures, and that all he is doing is trying to confuse people, and of course that doesnt seem like a good thing for me to think... but i cant make sense out of Paul

another thing is that Jesus says to do things for God and not just for recognition of others, Jesus says that we should pray silently when we are with oursleves, or soemthign similiar to that, as opposed tow alking around teh streets praying very loudly just so that others can see that we pray, yet Paul decides to go into a lot of detail in first corintihians about how Paul is so deserving of a reward, and that we are supposed to give him tons of material things, he says that he would never take this reward, yet he still makes sure that we know that he deserves a huge reward from us... shouldnt his reward be doing God's will and helping his fellow man to grow closer to God? why then at all should he be telling us that he deserves this reward, to me that doesnt seem to be a Christian thing to do, and seems to go against Jesus' teachings of not doing things just for others to acknowledge that we do it, Paul clearly just wants us to acknowledge that he deserves a huge reward from us, but that he is so kool that he wont take this reward... to me going by Jesus' teachings, even if he does deserve this reward, it is something he should keep to himself and he should just be glad to be doing God's will, rather then being stuck on the fact that he deserves a huge reward and material things from us...


another thing is this : Paul says that you shouldnt change anything about yourself or how you are when God calls you to his work, if your uncircumcized he says dont go circumsize urself and such... but no body was circumisized until God told them to do taht... so God clearly didnt want them to stay how they were, he wanted them to go and make themselves circumsized...



sorry for the probably confusing way in saying all of this, but hopefully you can see what im having trouble with and hopefully you can help me to better understand this.. its just that i can almost make the Bible make sense, adn tehn Paul starts talking and seems to throw away everything else that the rest of the Bible has taught me to believe... thank you for your help

[August]

JBird, why don't we tackle these a couple at a time. List your 2 biggest concerns with the related Scriptures attached, and we can work through it together.

[JBirdAngel]

i guess i dont understand, i only am asking about 3 things in that post, so why address 2 and leave one?... i did mention marriage stuff, but wasnt asking about it, so in that post there are really 3 things being asked about, the issues with food/stomach, Paul talking about the reward he is due, and then the part about changing yourself.

i do feel a little bit better about the things Paul says, but i would still like to hear peoples answer to these questions as that may further help me thank you

[LittleShepherd]

Food and Drink -- Whether there is literal food and drink in heaven is actually irrelevent. Paul may have been symbolic; he may not have. He could have been talking about the bread & wine representing the body and blood of Christ. All we know for sure is that God will be our sustainer through eternity Exactly how He works it isn't all that important, but it can help some people to think of it in terms of food & drink, 'cuz that's what makes sense to us due to our present experiences.

The Reward -- At no time does Paul claim that he deserves a reward; merely that he will get one. He's saying "I've done all these things through the power of Christ, and He's going to reward me for it." It's basically a message to Christians to persevere even though things get tough. Know God is with us and will get us through it. And yes, that God will reward us if we stay true to Him. His message is actually pretty clear -- we deserve nothing but hell, but God gives us so much anyway. He gives us what Christ deserves. The verse that says "Yet not I but Christ lives in me," makes that a little clearer, I think. Christ does all the work, and shares His deserved reward with us.

Changing Ourselves -- We shouldn't change ourselves, but that's not to mean we won't change. The biggest change has already taken place when we come to Christ, and it's kind of hard for us to top that. The other changes will happen at the urging of the Holy Spirit, and we should listen for His voice before trying to change. If we make certain decisions on our own, we're sure to mess something up, or miss a valuable lesson, or something.

Marriage -- I have to go to work now, but will address marriage as best I can see it later if you want.

[JBirdAngel]

thank you, and the statement of food and drink is actually very relevant and very important... in several ways, one because if it actually means no food or drink in Heaven then it goes against other things in the Bible, also important because everything in the Bible should be true, so if the statement cant be understood as a true statement that agrees with the rest of the Bible, then that cuases a huge problem...




as for the reward, in my Bible that im using as for the most part its easier to understand, its the New Testament J.B. Phillips translation, and mine doesnt list every verse number so i cant do that, but the section by 1 Corinthians 9.13 is titled "I am entitled to a reward, yet I have not taken it" and before that it says im not sure what verse a couple before 9:13,


For both the plowman as he plows adn the thresher as he threshes should have some hope of an ultimate share in teh harvest. If we have sown for you the seed of spiritual things, need you be greatly perturbed because we reap some of your material things? And if there are others with the right to have these things from you, have not we an even greater right? Yet we have never exercised this right and have put up with all sorts of things, so that we migh tnot hinder the spread of the gospel.

later sometime after 9:16 he talks about what is his rightful claim as a preacher..


like i agree with the him saying he doesnt take his reward, what i dont understand is why he is saying he deserves one, wether he does or not that shouldnt be , and according to what he says, is not the reason for him doing it, which i dont think he or anyoen should do it for the reward really, so why then does he make certain we know that he deserves our material things and a reward? i dont get that, and i dont get why material things at all would be a part of the reward really, i mean i realize he needs material things to live as does everyone, but i dunno i dont understand why he is saying that is part of a reward that he is entitled to have, and that he is more so entitled to peoples material things than anyone else who may be entitled to them...



as far as changing ourselves, i dont understand that because in other areas of the Bible you can clearly see God expects people to change themselves for him, such as circumsicion, so why does Paul then say not to change? is that part of being free from the law, as Jesus free'd us from the law he also free'd us from changing in such ways for God, im not sure it makes sense fully to me still...


and im not asking about marriage, i was just saying whatever i said about it in my first post, marriage is clearly a good thing, i think that AT MOST what Paul is saying, is that perhaps things being as they are it may IN HIS OPINION, and he says in several spots in 1 Corinthians that he is talking about his opinion and not things from God, it is his opinion that in this world at this time it may be easier to not be married, and this may also be more directed toward the people of Corinth at there time, it woul seem that Corinth had an above average rating for sexual activity, and in other parts you see Paul trying to calm that down, and perhaps he is suggesting not to marry because he feels that, as he says, it is for some people, though i dont believe at all its meant for all people, but that for some people it is more of a distraction to being for God, but for other people it fully helps and enhances your being for God and relationship with Him and so on, but he isnt really commenting on marriage or the in love relationship as it is/was/will be through all time, as clearly God and Jesus want there to be adn designed the one man one woman one flesh relationship, Paul is saying that he feels at the present time, so close to Jesus' return that it may be better for some to not marry


ok sorry for the long email and thanks for your help

[JBirdAngel]

sorry for double posting but to me it seems better than editing...


another thing is that right before 1 Corinthians 15.12 Paul says that he has worked harder then any other messenger... i mean i dunno that also doesnt seem the most Christian of things to say, though i guess that could be considered also to be similiar to John refering ot himself as the beloved, perhaps both just pointing out actual facts, but for somereason to me it doesnt seem that that is the right thing to do, wether you work harder or are more loved or the best loved, why carry that around on a flag to dangle in the faces of others? why not say we are all loved, that we all work, instead of trying to set oneself apart as somehow better? i dont understand...

[Strix]

JBirdAngel,

I can understand how some of the things that Paul wrote are a little confusing (they are for me as well! ) . Even Peter (who was an Apostle) wrote in 2 Peter 3:15-16 that in Paul's letters were "some things hard to understand". You might think that if Peter couldn't get it, then what hope is there for us? Paul answers this question himself when he wrote to the Ephesian brethren (Eph. 3:4) and said "when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ."

We haven't been promised that we'll get it all at once, but those who seek, will find (Matt.7:7)... so keep studying!

[Felgar]

Cool passage in 2 Peter... Never came across that before.

[Strix]

For me, that passage also shows the Holy Spirit through Peter equating the letters of Paul with Scripture. Peter writes that they distort his writings "as they do the rest of the Scriptures"(NASB) or "as they do the other Scriptures"(NIV).