Evidence for God from Science

Hi, i'm new to this board and would like to pose a few questions towards the christians here. First off let me say a little about myself. I was raised a christian by my parents and my father was also a minister. I "accepted the lord" at 4 years old. I did so because i assumed everything my parents said was true and not because i had any real notion of knowing jesus. My problem is i really don't know this jesus that you guys speak so proudly of. I've never felt his presence in my life in any way...what i mean is neither spiritually nor tangibly. I've never seen jesus, heard his voice, felt his presence or experienced anything that could be described as truly supernatural or miraculous.
I am now in a point in my life where i am no longer a christian but i believe in the possibility of god's existence. The problem with me is that i find it extremely hard to follow a religion when in my head i question everything about it and its legitimacy. The idea of christianity is completely dependent on whether you believe that jesus is the son of god or not. it is also dependent on whether you believe the accounts of what is said in the bible about his life and ministry. I cannot see myself devoting my entire life something on complete blind faith, To me that is that absolute opposite of what god would want me to do. why would god create me as a thinking rational being with an inquisitive mind if he expected me to believe everything a historian or writer said without question. The point i am getting at is this: I personally was not present during the time when jesus was born and cannot verify whether he is the son of god, if he was risen on the third day, or if he performed all those amazing miracles.All we know of jesus(or any other ancient history for that matter) is through the eyes of others and we all know that history is something that can be very much twisted by those who write it for their own personal or even social reasons.
Now while i am ok with accepting regular history as its told to me in the textbooks(even though i know somethings are not always true or a little twisted by the victorious), i think something like religion should be known to the individual as absolute infallible fact which leaves no doubt in the individual. After all if you are going to devote your life completely to something, shouldn't you feel within yourself that it is completely true?
Anyways, I am currently searching for god in his true form in my life. Now i don't know if the "true" god is the christian one but i sure as hell don't wanna die a "sinner" and find out he is.
I guess part of the main issue i have is that throughout the many years as a christian i have had no example of god's power working in my life. The general consensus with christians is that when you accept jesus into your life, he changes you. I've never had any real change occur. I just feel like the same person just with a bunch of rules i have to follow. As a matter of fact i guess you could say I've been going back and forth a lot in my life. I would sin and usually not even feel guilty about it (like im suppose to because of the holy spirit) and ask for forgiveness because that what you're suppose to do. But then id find myself doing the same thing in a day or even an hour or so later(for instance cursing) As a matter of fact my conscience only bothers me when i do something that violates my own personal code rather than every single thing that christians say is wrong. Can a few of you christians who had amazing spiritual/miraculous experiences share them with me? I've always wanted to ask this to every christian i meet so that maybe i could get some insight into why their belief is adamantly strong. Also, if there are any of you who would like to address some of the issues i have with christianity and would like to have a friendly intelligent reasonable debate, it would be greatly welcomed.

I found it helpfull to know him by learning about him.
It wasn;t untill I took in the book of john that I realised how jesus suffered for us. but when I saw it in the Mel Gibson movie Passion of Christ, it was a shock.
I think if you want to feel his presence in your life. You must get to know him by learning all you can about his life. This will take time and comittment on your part.

fedhykin wrote:Hi, i'm new to this board and would like to pose a few questions towards the christians here. First off let me say a little about myself. I was raised a christian by my parents and my father was also a minister. I "accepted the lord" at 4 years old. I did so because i assumed everything my parents said was true and not because i had any real notion of knowing jesus. My problem is i really don't know this jesus that you guys speak so proudly of. I've never felt his presence in my life in any way...what i mean is neither spiritually nor tangibly. I've never seen jesus, heard his voice, felt his presence or experienced anything that could be described as truly supernatural or miraculous.
I am now in a point in my life where i am no longer a christian but i believe in the possibility of god's existence. The problem with me is that i find it extremely hard to follow a religion when in my head i question everything about it and its legitimacy. The idea of christianity is completely dependent on whether you believe that jesus is the son of god or not. it is also dependent on whether you believe the accounts of what is said in the bible about his life and ministry. I cannot see myself devoting my entire life something on complete blind faith, To me that is that absolute opposite of what god would want me to do. why would god create me as a thinking rational being with an inquisitive mind if he expected me to believe everything a historian or writer said without question. The point i am getting at is this: I personally was not present during the time when jesus was born and cannot verify whether he is the son of god, if he was risen on the third day, or if he performed all those amazing miracles.All we know of jesus(or any other ancient history for that matter) is through the eyes of others and we all know that history is something that can be very much twisted by those who write it for their own personal or even social reasons.
Now while i am ok with accepting regular history as its told to me in the textbooks(even though i know somethings are not always true or a little twisted by the victorious), i think something like religion should be known to the individual as absolute infallible fact which leaves no doubt in the individual. After all if you are going to devote your life completely to something, shouldn't you feel within yourself that it is completely true?
Anyways, I am currently searching for god in his true form in my life. Now i don't know if the "true" god is the christian one but i sure as hell don't wanna die a "sinner" and find out he is.
I guess part of the main issue i have is that throughout the many years as a christian i have had no example of god's power working in my life. The general consensus with christians is that when you accept jesus into your life, he changes you. I've never had any real change occur. I just feel like the same person just with a bunch of rules i have to follow. As a matter of fact i guess you could say I've been going back and forth a lot in my life. I would sin and usually not even feel guilty about it (like im suppose to because of the holy spirit) and ask for forgiveness because that what you're suppose to do. But then id find myself doing the same thing in a day or even an hour or so later(for instance cursing) As a matter of fact my conscience only bothers me when i do something that violates my own personal code rather than every single thing that christians say is wrong. Can a few of you christians who had amazing spiritual/miraculous experiences share them with me? I've always wanted to ask this to every christian i meet so that maybe i could get some insight into why their belief is adamantly strong. Also, if there are any of you who would like to address some of the issues i have with christianity and would like to have a friendly intelligent reasonable debate, it would be greatly welcomed.

It is kind of weird but I have always grown up in the Same Respect just flowing through life knowing that God is who he says he is. Kind of on the Fence! I did not actually accept the Lord Jesus as my Saviour until I was 18 when I could make an Honest Decision towards him. I did not see any Change in me right away either but as the Days, Months went along and as I read the Bible more I noticed a Change in my Heart and a Peace that came over me! I was not worried on how I looked to people which was Amazing for me as my whole life before that was a Fear of the way People looked at me. I am cannot tell you the Bible is pure truth because you will have to discover that for yourself but what really got me about the Bible is the Prophecies it told (even though any Skeptic would shew away those prophecies). As I dived into more research of the Bible I noticed how much I loved the History of the Bible and the Truth of that History!

Anyways that is all for now

My main thing is I wonder why your father would give his whole life to telling people about Jesus. Does he just have blind faith, or does he have the fundamental understanding that Jesus has saved him? I'm assuming the latter, and then the obvious question is why can't you see the same reasons, being that you've lived with him for at least 18 years.

If you haven't had to go through many trials in life, consider the possibility that your father's prayers are protecting you.

I think there are a lot of ways that one can come to accepting Christ. One is through personal experience and His direct intervention. Another though, is logical thought about the type of God who deserves to be served. If you are OK with accepting that there is some God, then you need to think about the Christian God compared to others and see what makes the most sense. Would an all-powerful creator make people just to condemn them, or did He create us all with a plan for salvation and eternal life? Have we been given a choice to follow God because we were designed to love and freedom is fundamental to that, or does God not care at all about what He has created?

I'm new to this board too so nobody here is going to know me from a bar of soap... yet.

I can relate to your story inasmuch as I drifted into Christianity from childhood and then in the turmoil of adolescence further wandered into some very dramatic fringe "Christianity" which I eventually needed to get away from and therefore tossed the lot for quite a while. The details are not necessary here, except to say that despite some pretty awful stuff, I retained a strong sense of continuing to be held in the palm of God's hand, and beyond that I was totally agnostic.

In the last couple or so years, after recovering from a very serious illness combined with a few other circumstances (death of both parents), I felt a strong desire to talk with a Christian friend about... I hadn't a clue. Thankfully he did have a clue, and pointed me to a bunch of very worthy Christian apologist literature and I read voraciously.

One of those books I can wholeheartedly recommend to you is C.S. Lewis "Mere Christianity" which is a great read, orthodox, sensible, intelligent, and addresses many concerns of agnostics who need to understand more about Christianity and how it answers the questions against it.

A few more things happened to me. There was a car accident wherein the emergency services that attended expected to find me dead but I wasn't, something C.S. Lewis wrote and I read just when I needed to, plus an amazingly beautiful dream one night based on John 14:1-6 ... and when I awoke, realized there was no going back. I was a believer, and in I jumped.

The power of Jesus... there has been something recently that I knew was not right for me, but I did not want to give it up. Giving up something on the basis of "you should" when you honestly don't want to is not always very easy.
The starting point needed to be the desire to give it up (which I didn't really have, or had only half-heartedly despite all the good reasons I knew - including the notion that to love God required that I be obedient to His Will) and so I began to ask God to help me let it go even although I didn't want to do anything of the sort.
Oh boy, never ask God for what you want - you are just as likely to be given it!
Over a little while I found myself not caring for what I knew I should give up. It just didn't matter anymore. So giving it up became pretty simple. And I gave it up.
This same process has worked numerous times for me. I guess He really does take you seriously if you will take Him seriously too.

Well, I hope that goes a little way to addressing the issues you raised.
Just be careful if you start asking God for anything. He can take you on a pretty amazing journey if you are prepared to set out with Him.

fedhykin, I would like to submit for your obviously intelligent consideration that you purchase a book to read. It is by Norman Geissler and Frank Turek title "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist". It will walk you from the very foundations of truth and the other questions that you have in an extraordinary non Bible quoting way that is normally presented. The proofs are always logical and not "Just accept it and shut up about it" You are correct in assuming that God does not expect us to blindly follow anything, but wants all to KNOW the Truth. If you will read this book and not prejudge or filter through your old ideas of God, I truly believe that you will be amazed just how little faith a Christian has to have, and if not you still will be better for the mind exercising reading. I truly do feel for you and can empathize with your situation, I lived many years about 30 or so as an unconvinced Christian with a brain who was told "just believe and leave it alone". Enjoy your quest for Truth

I think one of the problems is how Christ and salvation are preached to believers and unbelievers. I think that when unbelievers hear that accepting Christ will change your life, they expect some supernatural confirmation to happen within themselves that would essentially eliminate any doubts or concerns that they may have. They are lead to believe that all Christians have or will experience some sort of undeniable confirmation upon accepting Christ as savior. Sadly, this is not what happens and is a huge let down to someone who believes this.

I myself have never knowingly experienced divine intervention that I could attribute undoubtedly to God. But I don't expect God to intervene in such a way. The reliability of the histocracy of the bible is sufficient reason for me to believe that Jesus is who he said he was. I cannot deny the accounts of Jesus and his claims any more than I can doubt that the American Revolution took place. I, therefore, have faith (faith based on logic and reason) that the bible is historically accurate, that Jesus is who he says he is, that Jesus claimed to be the way to salvation, and therefore, salvation will be granted to me any anyone else who accepts Jesus for who he is.