Evidence for God from Science

I was wondering, if God is a supernatural being and has laid out everything supernatural that we have not seen nor heard, then is it really possible to scientifically probe the supernatural through a fixed natural world/universe to us? I see these ghost hunter stories on t.v., and other strange things, and these people that hunt for things supernatural like ghosts/spirits, EVPs, etc... say they are scientists but I see that they fit more under the term of a pseudo-scientist. Personally, I don't think the supernatural can be examined in a natural universe that we percieve. They use these devices that pick up "unusual" magnetic readings, but that is because through everything, it has some magnetic force, like electrical outlets. Our earth, ourselves, animals, just about everything has a magnetic force. Then there are "orbs" pictured on photographs, this is most likely due to a lens glare or smudge of dirt or something that is natural. I personally have taken pictures when I was at Disneyland, and when I got my pictures processed, there were orbs in most of the pictures. EVPs, they are only small words, like 2-5 words, but because our brains are so powerful, what we hear from these EVPs can be and probably is just the brain trying to make something out of it. And then, lastly, you can fabricate something into reality when you get scared, your senses are hightened and your brain tricks you into believing what you want to believe. I think these are all examples of natural things that happen, like I said, I believe the supernatural cannot be examined. The ear has not heard and the eye has not seen. I may have not been so elaborate in this post but you get the idea, I hope.

What is your opinion? Can you actually examine the supernatural through science?

If the "supernatural" has left observable effects in our universe, then yes. I think observable effects of "supernatural" have been witnessed, therefore I think scientific enquiry can tell us some things about the bigger world than simply our own physical one.

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo wrote:If the "supernatural" has left observable effects in our universe, then yes. I think observable effects of "supernatural" have been witnessed, therefore I think scientific enquiry can tell us some things about the bigger world than simply our own physical one.

Kurieuo.

What specifically constitutes as a supernatural observable effect Kurieuo? All science can provide is a studied observation of materialistic objects on this planet and throughout the universe. We can't see spirits/ghosts flying around us, any form of science can't put them under a microscope and observe how they function because it is unseen to us, it is non-physical. This also goes with everything else. With EVPs, there MIGHT be a chance that what is being studied and observed is true but then there are the skeptics that provide a better answer to what is really going on. It is said 1 in 12 of these EVPs are very threatening. I don't think of them being the actual dead person but instead a demon that puts on the mask of that deceased person to deceive.

Skeptic Article On EVPs - http://www.skepdic.com/evp.html
Movie On EVPs - http://www.whitenoisemovie.com/
Official EVP Website - http://www.aaevp.com/

Well the finely-tuned conditions, as observed within the anthropic principle, are evidence for purposeful design. Such is what we would expect if God did infact create the universe with us as the centre of his attention.

Yet moving away from God, there is the phenomena of what has come to be called "near-dath experiences." Although there are no doubt thousands of people claiming to have experienced tunnels, lights, meeting deceased loved ones, angels, and even God; there are dozens of credible reports that have been documented of individuals who returned to consciousness after being comatose or at the point of clinical death. As Habermas the co-author of Beyond Death reports:

"Some of these individuals have described in amazing detail,facts about their physical surroundings that they should not have been able to know. Some have described details of medical procedures performed on them. Some have related memories of conversations that others had during their medical emergencies or even described the jewelry and clothing worn by those around them. Some accounts have given verified details about what happened outside the immediate room, down the hallway, or even miles away. The amount of verification is sometimes staggering. People blind from birth have correctly recalled visual details of things around them and outside their presence. Many of these near-death details were of events occurring when the individual had no heartbeat or brain wave activity, as indicated by "flat" EKG and EEG readings, sometimes over lengthly periods of time."

Now we have certain observations within the material world that produce facts pointing to the "supernatural" as you like to call it. And if your definition of science is limited to observations within labratory conditions, then scientists today perhaps shouldn't be called scientists. Yet, we still find much design hallmarks within the labratory of microbiologists anyway.

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo wrote:Well the finely-tuned conditions, as observed within the anthropic principle, are evidence for purposeful design. Such is what we would expect if God did infact create the universe with us as the centre of his attention.

Yet moving away from God, there is the phenomena of what has come to be called "near-dath experiences." Although there are no doubt thousands of people claiming to have experienced tunnels, lights, meeting deceased loved ones, angels, and even God; there are dozens of credible reports that have been documented of individuals who returned to consciousness after being comatose or at the point of clinical death. As Habermas the co-author of Beyond Death reports:

"Some of these individuals have described in amazing detail,facts about their physical surroundings that they should not have been able to know. Some have described details of medical procedures performed on them. Some have related memories of conversations that others had during their medical emergencies or even described the jewelry and clothing worn by those around them. Some accounts have given verified details about what happened outside the immediate room, down the hallway, or even miles away. The amount of verification is sometimes staggering. People blind from birth have correctly recalled visual details of things around them and outside their presence. Many of these near-death details were of events occurring when the individual had no heartbeat or brain wave activity, as indicated by "flat" EKG and EEG readings, sometimes over lengthly periods of time."

Now we have certain observations within the material world that produce facts pointing to the "supernatural" as you like to call it. And if your definition of science is limited to observations within labratory conditions, then scientists today perhaps shouldn't be called scientists. Yet, we still find much design hallmarks within the labratory of microbiologists anyway.

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo, I am aware of the arguments for and against NDEs, it is not absolute proof of life after death, there is evidence/proof that at the time of clinical death, chemicals are released throughout the brain causing these types of experiences. I watched a video on NDEs, and although it dates back to production in the early 1990's, it had many testimonies of people that have had these experiences and then there is a professor who has studied these experiences and says that in the right temporal of the brain, there is a "generator" that makes these up. In addition, even at clinical death, there still is the brain stem which can be active when the brain is not and is registering nothing, and produce these experiences. So it doesn't all rely upon the brain. it is a very fascinating phenomena that happens, but is it true, half-true, or false? I have read many articles on these experiences on a scientific level and it does a good job of explaining the phenomena away as nothing but fabrication.

You saw a documentary and in it "a" professor said it's all in the brain? Guess I'm loosing an uphill battle... If you detected some cynicism, well I think I have good reason for it since I feel as though you didn't read my post. For you did not deal with the "credible" NDEs, that is, the ones that have good attestation and the person in question actually remembers facts pertaining to reality they couldn't have known. I recommend getting a hold of the book I mentioned in my last post.

Anyway, getting back to "your" original topic, my original response still stands which is if the "supernatural" has left observable effects in our universe, then science would obviously be able to deal with them. Perhaps you do, but I fail to see anything illogical about this? Of course science can't deal with anything beyond the physical realm, and in this respect, science has its limits on what truths it can tell us.

Kurieuo.