The reason i'm not christian, maybe someone can explain?

[jakobp]

<Link removed by moderator. Question is clear without it.>

There's verses that talk about murdering babies and incest. IDK if the whole "you need to put in the context" argument will work

[Canuckster1127]

That's odd jakobp. Your profile says you're a christian and yet your posts for a while leading up to this one are linking to atheist sites and asking pretty standard questions from them. What's going on?

[jakobp]

lol, I put christian on there when i first signed up i was christian and that was before i began researching into religion and science...the problem is that i don't know how to change it. And the reason i link it is because i get the links from atheist friends and i place them on here so that maybe you guys, who seem to know a lot more than me, can answer or refute them. And i ask the questions because i like to know if there are any refutations, i'm sorry that i don't like to sweep the problems under the rug.

[Canuckster1127]

Please read our Board Purpose and Discussion Guidelines. Honest questions and seekers are welcome. It appears you've made up your mind (if it wasn't before you've come) and are simply promoting traffic to other sites. We're not an open debate board. If you wish to simply go back and forth on these things, there are other sites that would serve better for that.

Most of the questions you're asking are pretty basic and have direct articles addressing them on the main site. Perhaps you should check there first and give some indication that you've read and understood what is being said there and then if you have more specific questions that interact with the material there perhap things will go better.

[musician]

i'm sorry that i don't like to sweep the problems under the rug.

I see. So you post links from other people for us to respond to, rather than engage in a conversation with us personally about what you and we believe -- rather impolite I'd say.

Even so, since you don't like to sweep the problems under the rug, consider this: God is THE one and only life-giver.

- Nathan

[jakobp]

woah, i should have posted this before my first comment..i do believe in god..just a deistic one..so i'm not here to argue the existence of god and in many ways i would like to be a christian, but there are many walls that hold me back, for example the stuff on the site. The reason i post all these questions from atheistic sites is because i want to see a christians response

[Canuckster1127]

OK Jacob. I'm being straight up with you as well. You already have Christian responses on the mainsite in many of the articles and you also have many existing threads here that answer these types of questions. When I see a series of questions culminating in a link to a militant atheist site, then it's a fair question for me to ask, and to ask you to be aware of moving forward. Just tossing out questions like this over the long-haul without you doing some of your own work and examination of the answers already present is not going to be a long-term effective way of continuing. Fair enough?

[jakobp]

oh trust me, i've done my work and this isn't the only site i've asked questions like these on...I post this site on atheistic sites too just to see what they think...but whatever i guess, idk why remove the link? it still exists and still needs to be read and refuted and the reason i put the link was because there are dozens of more reasons that should be looked at, but like i said whatever...let's just get to the topic and see what your guys opinions are?

[Canuckster1127]

We don't exist to direct traffic to boards which don't align with our pupose. We give some leniency for established members who have a long-term track record when such a link is for illustrative or demonstrative of a point. EvilBible is not such a site and your question is clear and doesn't suffer for not having the link present.

Again, if this isn't clear, read the Board Purpose and Discussion Guidelines and stay within them and thing will be fine. If your purpose is simply to debate and raise doubts then this isn't the board for you. That you're active by your own admission on atheist sites it would appear to me that it's reasonable to ask what your purposes and motives are here.

[Canuckster1127]

In answer to your question, just because something is recorded as an historical fact within the Bible doesn't mean that it's prescriptive in the sense that it means that the reference is intended to endorse the action, either at the time of its commission or carried forward following the finished work of Christ. That's a common misconception. One book that has been mentioned repeatedly on other threads that addresses some of these issues, is "Is God a Moral Monster" by Paul Copans.

[jakobp]

Again, I'm not here to "raise doubts" or even debate...I was told about this site by an atheist, who i was actually arguing with, and he used it because he told me that he didn't want to even begin to write the horrible things in the bible, i was shocked. Similarly to the atheist i didn't want to write every single one of them down and instead wrote a couple of the worst ones and put the link on because i intended to refer to it later and have it for you guys just to make sure i wasn't BS-ing (which is something i get a lot in religious arguments). And i'm on atheistic sites because i want answers from BOTH people, but i can say that 80% i'm reading articles on christians and deistic sites. That is the complete truth and i'm not here on some secret atheist covert mission to place doubts so can we please talk about the question?

[Canuckster1127]

Which of these articles on these issues have you read on our main site?

http://godandscience.org/apologetics/cr ... acter.html

What specifically within these articles that address the types of questions you are raising, are unclear or problematic for you?

[jakobp]

i've read many and none of them i have problems with, i just haven't found any articles on this site or any other site that talks about these verses or issues...so i thought i'd ask on the discussion board

[Canuckster1127]

Please cite the specific verses you are basing your questions upon. We don't need a link to an atheist site for you to do that.

[jakobp]

alright here are some of the worst ones:

Heres one on baby killing: "The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

Killing a good samaritan: "The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals."
"When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God." (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

killing children of sinners: "Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants." (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

killing people from other religions: "If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Human sacrifice:"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith - twenty towns - and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter - his only child - ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." Judges 11:29-40

Rape law: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deuteronomy 22:28-29

baby killing: "Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." Psalms 137:9 NAB

not killing for god: Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

killing women, children, elderly: "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

more baby killing: "The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords." (Hosea 13:16 NLT)