Evidence for God from Science

Not only Dawkins and the other militant atheists, but atheism in general?
i know that atheists are small compared to theists and deists, but if you go on Youtube and watch and video that speaks favorably to god, it has 90% thumbs down and a very little amount of thumbs up! it's like every theist video gets taken over by atheists!

Also, atheist videos, such as Dawkins and Hitchens have hundreds of thousands of views and thousands of thumbs up compared to the theist videos?

In my opinion,(i'm a skeptical Christian) atheism is rising because believers don't seem to want to spend the time to defend their faith and when somebody like me goes on youtube to see videos that are against atheism, they have thousands of hate comments and negative ratings and you can't help to think that theism doesn't have any good defenses! i've posted links to this site to many atheists that i've argued with and many say that this site is full of god, but not a lot of science!

Atheists seem to have this confidence that their arguments are undefeatable and that theists are idiots because most of the ones they argue with are inexperienced and don't spend time looking into information that could help win an argument.

Many of my friends have become atheists after reading militant atheist books and if you argue with them, they seem to have the entire books memorized!

But my question is why is atheism rising so quickly and so strongly?

Look up on Youtube the Craig vs Harris debate that was held recently. If its the one I'm thinking of, over half the videos have, as their most featured/positive comment, a line that basically claims that WLC is 'probably a child molestor'. Hatred is much louder than love, and unfortunately the anonymity of the internet amplifies its loudness.

Those comments weren't the first that I'd seen. Someone on Facebook that I used to talk to (but thankfully no longer do) would go on page-after-page rants of how intellectually inferior Christians are to atheists. He would be scathing and untruthful, but the hate would drip. If you called him out on it, he'd not only accept responsibility, he'd claim the hatred was deserved, well-informed, and the best course of action. The mutual 'friend' who let this go on told me on several ocassions he disagreed with it, but never did anything about it, probably because he himself is an atheist and feels something similar. This really hateful person is a theoretical psychologist... and another friend who has even more schooling called him out on several inaccuracies once when he did an anti-religious rant. He was dead wrong, but after dodging the criticism, found new ways to bash Christians.

Fact is, we aren't just fighting people. We are fighting much stronger, creuler, and eviler forces than humans could ever muster, and they tend to operate through people who are willing to let it happen. Christianity will probably never be as popular as atheism because loudness always ensures popularity. However, I am not convinced that the truth needs a majority to prevail.

We just need to keep fighting and not give up at it. When people are hateful, we are called to love, but that doesn't mean we need to stand for being abused. I refuse to talk to people that have more closed minds than stones and trees. Not only is it exhausting and fruitless, but the hatred can rub off. I try just to focus on people who haven't locked their mind onto their belief with absurd levels of certainty.

Who ever said this chancer was popular?

Among his small band of atheist followers? Sure.

Otherwise Dawkins is pratically ridiculed everywhere I look.

jakobp wrote:Not only Dawkins and the other militant atheists, but atheism in general?
i know that atheists are small compared to theists and deists, but if you go on Youtube and watch and video that speaks favorably to god, it has 90% thumbs down and a very little amount of thumbs up! it's like every theist video gets taken over by atheists!

Atheism does seem louder on the Internet. This is because Internet atheists act like it's their moral obligation to visit every possible topic that deals with Christianity, and attack it as fiercely as possible. I saw a poll about religion, where atheists outnumbered Christians by nearly 5:1 in the first days (they already started boasting about their "success"!), but during the following days, the number of Christians slowly overtook the number of atheists, and the poll ended with about 2:1 in our favour. We're not absent, we're just slower to react because we have a life apart from the Internet.

jakobp wrote:Also, atheist videos, such as Dawkins and Hitchens have hundreds of thousands of views and thousands of thumbs up compared to the theist videos?

We Christians are firmer in our faith, so we watch theist videos only if we're interested, while militant atheists are insecure - that's where their aggression comes from. They don't want to think about the flaws of their worldview.

jakobp wrote:In my opinion,(i'm a skeptical Christian) atheism is rising because believers don't seem to want to spend the time to defend their faith and when somebody like me goes on youtube to see videos that are against atheism, they have thousands of hate comments and negative ratings and you can't help to think that theism doesn't have any good defenses! i've posted links to this site to many atheists that i've argued with and many say that this site is full of god, but not a lot of science!

They say that, but very few of them actually come here to discuss their objections to this site and our forum.

jakobp wrote:Atheists seem to have this confidence that their arguments are undefeatable and that theists are idiots because most of the ones they argue with are inexperienced and don't spend time looking into information that could help win an argument.

I have a completely contrary impression. They want us to think that they're confident, while in reality, they're at least subconsciously aware that they could likely be wrong, and we know what that would lead to. That's why they resort to insults and humiliation, but demoralizing your opponent in a debate won't in any way affect the truth.

By the way, good post, Marcus!

Hey guys! You can't use YouTube thumbs (up or down) or any other online poll to determine what the population thinks - especially about religion. There are a few reasons:

1. The internet is not a random sampling of the population. People on the internet are generally more intelligent/wealthy/educated than the average citizen. Since intelligence and religiosity are (on average) inversely related, religious people make up a smaller percentage of internet users than they do in the outside world.

2. Atheists do not have a good alternative for getting the message out. There are no atheist churches (no atheist would waste a day every week to sit and listen to an old man ramble and then put money into a tray), so the internet provides a great way to "spread the word" and to raise money for the cause. Religious people can rely on their churches to perform tasks that atheists must do on their own for the most part.

3. We DO feel threatened! We are always being told by the government that gay's can't marry and you can't marry multiple people, because that's not what the bible says, and women can't get abortions because that's un-christian. We have to deal with having "under God" added to the pledge of allegiance in a country that was founded by people who were fleeing oppression from other religions. We see christian TV channels and hear christian radio shows everywhere. We drive by huge crosses everywhere we go. Imaging yourself in our shoes. What if you saw atheist symbols everywhere and saw atheists on TV asking for money for atheist super churches to support more atheism (money that could go to a cause that's actually helping society). It would probably bother most of you, right?

4. The internet is anonymous. Because the US is so overrun with Christianity, most atheists can not - or are not willing to - speak out in public. We hear our bosses/co-workers/friends saying, "Thank god, god is great, praise the lord." If we respond by saying "Um, you realize there is no God, right?" we're essentially calling that person an idot for believing in a magical being who has control of the world. You don't want to call your boss or co-worker an idiot if you value your job, and you wouldn't want to hurt your friend's feelings or start a large debate that will go on for years before you finally convert them. So we stay quiet and bite our tongues for the most part. Its different on the internet where you don't know the people you're talking to and don't care as much what they think about you.

Summary: don't trust internet polls in regards to religion.

I have to agree with one member's statement that Christians are firmer in their "faith." In religious circles it is considered a good thing to have unwavering, unquestioning, blind "faith" in your religion. This is the way religions inhibit people from considering other options. Freethinkers throw out the idea that people should have blind "faith" in anything. We think you owe it to yourself to question your own beliefs. Despite the concept of "faith" being a very effective way to prevent people from searching for truth, atheism is on the rise worldwide. Religious people are realizing that the myths they were raised with may not be reality. Also, thanks to the Flynn effect, the population is getting smarter with every generation. As this happens, people realize that we don't need a wind god or a sea god or a sun god and that we can explain things in a rational, non-magical way. Now, all those gods have been abandoned and we're just left with the god of death (different names depending on religion) - the one who deals with you when you die and will place you in heaven or hell. Sadly, there will never be a way to prove that nothing happens to you after you die. You can make logical arguments against it, which I won't go into out of respect for your pro-religion website, but there will never be proof either way. So this one god will stick around until average intelligence increases another 15 points or so.

Its not that atheists go home and memorize atheist books. Its that people who don't have good arguments for atheism and who can't articulate them well, usually can't become atheists in the first place. If you're not smart enough to understand the concepts and aren't able to win a few arguments with the religious friends you grew up with, you're probably going to end up staying religious. Unfortunately the opposite isn't true. Religious people can lose arguments to atheists and still stay religious because of "faith." They don't care if what they believe makes no sense. They think that belief itself is what is important.

Anyway, I was hoping that since your website tries to mix god and science that the people on here might be the type of people who actually want to search for truth, so I thought I'd come check it out. It looks like there are a lot of topics covered on the website. I look forward to talking to you all and hearing your opinions.

Reactionary wrote:
I have a completely contrary impression. They want us to think that they're confident, while in reality, they're at least subconsciously aware that they could likely be wrong, and we know what that would lead to. That's why they resort to insults and humiliation, but demoralizing your opponent in a debate won't in any way affect the truth.

By the way, good post, Marcus!

Oh, I forgot to touch on your comment that atheists know they might be wrong. You are right, but its not subconscious. We are very conscious of the fact that we might be wrong. In fact it is this quality that enables us to escape from religion in the first place. Most people are raised religious. You can't leave the belief system you are born into without being able to admit that you might be wrong, whereas if a religious person is stubborn and unable to admit when he/she is wrong, they are perfectly capable of continuing with their religious beliefs.

Also, when I submitted my last post, it said a moderator had to approve my post. I assumed this science/god forum would allow other view points without any moderation/editing. You can't have science, after all, if you only allow one viewpoint to be heard. Are half of my posts going to get edited out if I don't agree with whatever you guys say? I don't plan on being disrespectful and if I am I would rather have you guys tell me than just have my post not ever show up because someone behind a curtain didn't think it fit with his view of the world. Wouldn't a system where people can click a "report abuse" button next to a post be better? That way you ensure nobody's viewpoints are being left out of the discussion but spam and "haters" can be blocked. It would also get people's posts up faster and require less effort on the part of the moderators. Its your website, but I'm just saying... this is supposed to be at least semi-scientific, right?

Steve wrote:Also, when I submitted my last post, it said a moderator had to approve my post. I assumed this science/god forum would allow other view points without any moderation/editing. You can't have science, after all, if you only allow one viewpoint to be heard. Are half of my posts going to get edited out if I don't agree with whatever you guys say? I don't plan on being disrespectful and if I am I would rather have you guys tell me than just have my post not ever show up because someone behind a curtain didn't think it fit with his view of the world. Wouldn't a system where people can click a "report abuse" button next to a post be better? That way you ensure nobody's viewpoints are being left out of the discussion but spam and "haters" can be blocked. It would also get people's posts up faster and require less effort on the part of the moderators. Its your website, but I'm just saying... this is supposed to be at least semi-scientific, right?

I think it just applies to the first few posts you make, more spam control than censorship. Think of it as a little peer review if that helps.

Steve wrote:4. The internet is anonymous. Because the US is so overrun with Christianity, most atheists can not - or are not willing to - speak out in public. We hear our bosses/co-workers/friends saying, "Thank god, god is great, praise the lord." If we respond by saying "Um, you realize there is no God, right?" we're essentially calling that person an idot for believing in a magical being who has control of the world. You don't want to call your boss or co-worker an idiot if you value your job, and you wouldn't want to hurt your friend's feelings or start a large debate that will go on for years before you finally convert them. So we stay quiet and bite our tongues for the most part. Its different on the internet where you don't know the people you're talking to and don't care as much what they think about you.

Whilst not really something I notice much in Scotland a few atheist friends I've knows for years online in the US express similar feelings. Access to the internet was a revelation for their atheism which had to be kept under wraps when living and working in strongly Christian communities. Certainly some of them would like to call people idiots but moreso it just seemed about being able to express their atheism without being viewed as a social leper. The more something has to be suppressed in day to day life the more it will flourish on a relatively anonymous set up like the internet. You seem a little presumptuous that you will finally convert them, perhaps a little more openness that you may one day also hold a different opinion than the one you currently hold would be more conducive to dialogue.

Steve wrote:Also, thanks to the Flynn effect, the population is getting smarter with every generation.

To be a little more accurate people, in the few generations that IQ tests have been around people have been getting better at doing them.

To answer the op, I think Richard Dawkins and his friends are so popular as they are standing up and questioning religion, its authority and its roots. It has been an almost taboo subject for a long time. It resonates with many people. Most people I know who were really taken by Dawkins' theological ramblings were not people who went from committed Christian to ardent atheists, they were brought up in a religious family and schooling environment and never really felt a connection with it, reading Dawkins was like a breath of fresh air for them.

It's not really the validity or robustness of the arguments that Dawkins presents that make people want to shout about it in my opinion. It's that he's basically shouting 'religion is a load of old rubbish' and a lot of people think 'my goodness, he's right!".

Watching Karen Armstrong a few nights ago she mentions that Dawkins and co are doing religion a service:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moL4mu3vHIU&t=1m23s

I think most of the things mentioned are factors. I think its probably a sense of atheist community because they may not have as many other opportunities for those committees simply because there's fewer of them. In certain corners of the internet it feels like there are a LOT of scientologists when in reality there's under 100,000 in the US. And frankly, mean-spirited mocking and ridicule is pretty popular on the net. Some of the biggest forums on the net (many with lots of atheists but most probably aren't specifically atheist) are devoted to things like that.

Oh, andif the average youtube user is really smarter, wealthier, and better educated than the average person... then heaven help the world.

Steve wrote:We are always being told by the government that gay's can't marry and you can't marry multiple people,

Isn't gay marriage becoming legal? And who stops you from getting married multiple times? I thought divorce was legal in the US. Unless you mean being married to several people at once, which is ludicrous, as the very point of "marriage" would therefore be dissolved.

Steve wrote:and women can't get abortions because that's un-christian.

Abortion is murder. This has very little to do with Christianity, except the fact that Christianity teaches that murder is unethical.

Steve wrote:We have to deal with having "under God" added to the pledge of allegiance in a country that was founded by people who were fleeing oppression from other religions.

I can't deal with that statement, as I'm not American.

Steve wrote:We see christian TV channels and hear christian radio shows everywhere. We drive by huge crosses everywhere we go. Imaging yourself in our shoes. What if you saw atheist symbols everywhere and saw atheists on TV asking for money for atheist super churches to support more atheism (money that could go to a cause that's actually helping society). It would probably bother most of you, right?

So, you suggest that we Christians (who are a majority) should abandon our lifestyle because some atheists (a minority) feel threatened? Nobody forces you to go to church, or to pay that money as far as I know. By the way, Christian churches do help the society by organizing missions in the Third World countries, opening orphanages, and most importantly, by spreading the Truth and therefore giving people a meaning and purpose in life.

Steve wrote:4. The internet is anonymous. Because the US is so overrun with Christianity, most atheists can not - or are not willing to - speak out in public. We hear our bosses/co-workers/friends saying, "Thank god, god is great, praise the lord." If we respond by saying "Um, you realize there is no God, right?" we're essentially calling that person an idot for believing in a magical being who has control of the world. You don't want to call your boss or co-worker an idiot if you value your job, and you wouldn't want to hurt your friend's feelings or start a large debate that will go on for years before you finally convert them. So we stay quiet and bite our tongues for the most part. Its different on the internet where you don't know the people you're talking to and don't care as much what they think about you.

Cool story, bro.

First of all, by calling God a "magical" being, you obviously don't understand the very definition of God. He's not some old guy in the sky who launches thunder from his finger, but the eternal first cause of our universe. And by making an absolute statement like "there is no God", you show a touch of arrogance because you would have to know everything, in other words, be omniscient (like God) in order to be able to make such a statement. This is why people usually become offended.

Steve wrote:I have to agree with one member's statement that Christians are firmer in their "faith." In religious circles it is considered a good thing to have unwavering, unquestioning, blind "faith" in your religion. This is the way religions inhibit people from considering other options.

Wrong. I don't know what "religions" you have on your mind, but Christianity endorses the people to examine everything and choose what seems most reasonable (Thessalonians 5:21), and to 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your MIND' (Luke 10:27, emphasis mine). What you've written so far is just another unsubstantiated antitheist rant. Try reading some materials from the main site:
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/at ... myths.html

Steve wrote:Freethinkers throw out the idea that people should have blind "faith" in anything. We think you owe it to yourself to question your own beliefs.

"Freethinkers"? Doesn't atheism (materialism, actually) deny the existence of free will? If I'm wrong, then please explain how a bunch of random chemical reactions (which are prone to the laws of chemistry) and random electrical activity (which is prone to the laws of physics) in the brain can in any way be free?

I'm not saying that an atheist can't be a freethinker. He can, because you, just as I, have been given the ability to reason by God, when He made us all in His own image (Genesis 1:26). My point is that your worldview doesn't explain the existence of reason, in fact it denies it.

Steve wrote:Despite the concept of "faith" being a very effective way to prevent people from searching for truth, atheism is on the rise worldwide.

Again, please explain how chemical reactions could search for "truth"?

Steve wrote:Also, thanks to the Flynn effect, the population is getting smarter with every generation.

I haven't noticed. I notice more and more illiterate children at the age of ten, who hang out on Facebook all day and can't solve a puzzle. The population doesn't get smarter individually, we get that impression because the civilization technologically advances, which is caused by shared knowledge. You and I didn't in any way contribute to these technological advances. We can't build an iPod in our homes.

Steve wrote:As this happens, people realize that we don't need a wind god or a sea god or a sun god and that we can explain things in a rational, non-magical way.

Straw man.

Steve wrote:Now, all those gods have been abandoned and we're just left with the god of death (different names depending on religion) - the one who deals with you when you die and will place you in heaven or hell.

In some way, I agree, because He is the only god. Monotheism is the original religion, polytheistic religions were invented later, and of course, renounced as they had no credibility.
http://creation.com/wilhelm-schmidt-and ... f-religion

Steve wrote:Sadly, there will never be a way to prove that nothing happens to you after you die. You can make logical arguments against it, which I won't go into out of respect for your pro-religion website, but there will never be proof either way. So this one god will stick around until average intelligence increases another 15 points or so.

I guess it will take a bit more time to get rid of these 2,100,000,000 people, especially as this number is on the rise:
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Steve wrote:Its not that atheists go home and memorize atheist books. Its that people who don't have good arguments for atheism and who can't articulate them well, usually can't become atheists in the first place. If you're not smart enough to understand the concepts and aren't able to win a few arguments with the religious friends you grew up with, you're probably going to end up staying religious. Unfortunately the opposite isn't true. Religious people can lose arguments to atheists and still stay religious because of "faith." They don't care if what they believe makes no sense. They think that belief itself is what is important.

According to your logic, you shouldn't have become an atheist either. From all the "arguments" you gave, I haven't seen anything new. You haven't managed to win an argument against a 20-year-old student, let alone a theologian (and there are theologians here). You're going to have to do better than that.

P.S.:

Steve wrote:Also, when I submitted my last post, it said a moderator had to approve my post. I assumed this science/god forum would allow other view points without any moderation/editing. You can't have science, after all, if you only allow one viewpoint to be heard. Are half of my posts going to get edited out if I don't agree with whatever you guys say? I don't plan on being disrespectful and if I am I would rather have you guys tell me than just have my post not ever show up because someone behind a curtain didn't think it fit with his view of the world. Wouldn't a system where people can click a "report abuse" button next to a post be better? That way you ensure nobody's viewpoints are being left out of the discussion but spam and "haters" can be blocked. It would also get people's posts up faster and require less effort on the part of the moderators. Its your website, but I'm just saying... this is supposed to be at least semi-scientific, right?

Well, you weren't edited out.

Only a few of your first comments are going to be reviewed, and when admins realize that you're not a spammer or a troll, you'll be able to post freely. We all had to go through this.

Easy, Pro

Proinsias wrote:To answer the op, I think Richard Dawkins and his friends are so popular as they are standing up and questioning religion, its authority and its roots. It has been an almost taboo subject for a long time. It resonates with many people.

What an outdated and mythical argument this is, Pro. Religion has been the whipping boy for the intelligentsia for hundreds of years now. This “taboo” argument is one of the reddest red herrings of all time. Brave old Richard, eh?

Most people I know who were really taken by Dawkins' theological ramblings were not people who went from committed Christian to ardent atheists, they were brought up in a religious family and schooling environment and never really felt a connection with it, reading Dawkins was like a breath of fresh air for them.

I agree. It’s like the dumb preaching to the dumb.

It's not really the validity or robustness of the arguments that Dawkins presents that make people want to shout about it in my opinion. It's that he's basically shouting 'religion is a load of old rubbish' and a lot of people think 'my goodness, he's right!".

In other words, it’s not intelligent arguments, but rather ranting that is the appeal? Quality.

Many of the Dawkins-type atheists that I've met happen to also have significant egos, which the Dawkins philosophy promotes. Not only does it preach that atheists are "better" than Christians, but also that there's no accountability - so just do whatever you want.

I think it is the same reason why Christianity was popular back in the day. It is being seen a a kinder option. All around these people they are seeing Christians promote hateful language, they hear the horror stories from their peers who were raised in a Christian household (spare the rod stuff being used to justify).

Are you sure they are Atheist and not Agnostic? Most teens I knew in high school would become Agnostic.

As for Richard's popularity, as someone who read two of his books and is working on a third, he is kind of the much needed religious leader that Atheists were looking for. Their own personal Jesus saving them from being so alone. He is bringing more atheists out because now they feel like they have a choice. They aren't so alone after all.

His arguments do make sense to me- but I still believe in God. BUT- I felt comfort for my husband who is Atheist. It made him feel better about himself and that he can finally move on from the horrific childhood he suffered at the hands of people who thought they were doing God's work by trying to mold him into cookie cutter clergy. I mean I am not kidding about that. My husband knows the bible forward and backward and growing up he wasn't allowed to read anything else. And Sunday was very sacred and the only things he could watch were like... Veggietales. He even has a pin saying "Elder (his last name)". His mom had high dreams for him.

Actually, I often feel that Christians don't understand the other side at all. Your very question kinda tells me that.

You should be asking your friends why they have rejected God. Maybe, they are a gentler sort of people who are looking for something the satisfies them more than Christianity is currently offering. They are often the type of people who look for miracles, search for answers, and wish for peace.

An Atheist I know said- "The quickest way to become an Atheist is to read the Bible." Many Atheists feel that God is cruel in this book, and that he is not truly loving.

I think the last reason I can think of is that... By being Atheists, they can then remove the block in their mind that says "God is hurting me" and say "Only I can make my life better." They can push on and become self-reliant. Unfortunately this is the society we live in. We are constantly told to get back up and many feel that Jesus does not carry them when they fall. By becoming self-reliant they now feel they only have themselves to blame, and that actually motivates them to excel in this world.

I will admit, I do hear comments about how stupid Christians are- but it is more directed at the way they always see you guys promoting "hate speech" (yes they lump you all together much the same way you lump them all together with China). They really don't like it. Killing abortion doctors and "pray the gay away" makes them feel even more right for not having to be associated with Christianity.

Christianity used to be the kinder religion. It used to offer something special in comparison with everything around it. Nothing was better. But now, with so much at their finger tips, the tolerance movement, knowing there are nice people in this world who don't believe in God. Knowing more about other religions. Christianity needs to start being viewed as compassionate again... And as a Christian I know you are going to say "But we are!" but you guys need to make this more obvious to an Atheist who have already lost their faith... probably in humanity in general.

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:I think it is the same reason why Christianity was popular back in the day. It is being seen a a kinder option. All around these people they are seeing Christians promote hateful language, they hear the horror stories from their peers who were raised in a Christian household (spare the rod stuff being used to justify).

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:BUT- I felt comfort for my husband who is Atheist. It made him feel better about himself and that he can finally move on from the horrific childhood he suffered at the hands of people who thought they were doing God's work by trying to mold him into cookie cutter clergy. I mean I am not kidding about that. My husband knows the bible forward and backward and growing up he wasn't allowed to read anything else. And Sunday was very sacred and the only things he could watch were like... Veggietales. He even has a pin saying "Elder (his last name)". His mom had high dreams for him.

As far as I understood, your husband became an atheist because of a painful childhood when religion was shoved down his throat. I've heard of such cases, and I know such people. They reject Christianity not because they find it unreasonable, but because they affiliate it with traumas they had been through. That's a pity, but you have to make reason prevail in such situations. You can't equate a worldview with your experiences that have nothing to do with it. Your eternal fate is at stake.

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:As for Richard's popularity, as someone who read two of his books and is working on a third, he is kind of the much needed religious leader that Atheists were looking for. Their own personal Jesus saving them from being so alone. He is bringing more atheists out because now they feel like they have a choice. They aren't so alone after all.

It's good that you admitted that atheism is a religion. It is, and it requires a lot of faith, much more than Christianity.

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:His arguments do make sense to me- but I still believe in God.

I don't see how his rambles could make any sense, but he obviously hasn't convinced you.

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:Actually, I often feel that Christians don't understand the other side at all. Your very question kinda tells me that.

Why? The author of this thread asked why militant atheists flood the Internet, and why they disrespect Christians. That is true. You can see for yourself.

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:You should be asking your friends why they have rejected God. Maybe, they are a gentler sort of people who are looking for something the satisfies them more than Christianity is currently offering. They are often the type of people who look for miracles, search for answers, and wish for peace.

The thing is, one should be interested in searching for what is the truth, not what suits himself.

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:An Atheist I know said- "The quickest way to become an Atheist is to read the Bible." Many Atheists feel that God is cruel in this book, and that he is not truly loving.

The problem with the argument from evil is that an atheist can not justify why he considers certain deeds good or evil. Richard calls everything "blind, pitiless indifference" as far as I recall.

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:I think the last reason I can think of is that... By being Atheists, they can then remove the block in their mind that says "God is hurting me" and say "Only I can make my life better." They can push on and become self-reliant. Unfortunately this is the society we live in. We are constantly told to get back up and many feel that Jesus does not carry them when they fall. By becoming self-reliant they now feel they only have themselves to blame, and that actually motivates them to excel in this world.

Why would God hurt you? I don't understand your point. Christian faith reinforces me and gives me a reason to wake up every day and put effort into things I do. Without God, everything is meaningless, so why bother? You could feed the entire world single-handedly, or be a cruel dictator, in atheism, whatever you do, you'll end up in the same place - nowhere. I don't see anything motivational in aging and dying.

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:I will admit, I do hear comments about how stupid Christians are- but it is more directed at the way they always see you guys promoting "hate speech" (yes they lump you all together much the same way you lump them all together with China). They really don't like it. Killing abortion doctors and "pray the gay away" makes them feel even more right for not having to be associated with Christianity.

Oh please, don't defend them.

I have never seen Christians mocking or insulting atheists for no reason. As for these examples you mentioned, you can't pick anything bad someone does, affiliate it with Christianity, and use that as an argument against Christianity. That's a straw man.

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:Christianity used to be the kinder religion. It used to offer something special in comparison with everything around it. Nothing was better. But now, with so much at their finger tips, the tolerance movement, knowing there are nice people in this world who don't believe in God. Knowing more about other religions. Christianity needs to start being viewed as compassionate again... And as a Christian I know you are going to say "But we are!" but you guys need to make this more obvious to an Atheist who have already lost their faith... probably in humanity in general.

Look... An atheist who comes here and honestly seeks truth, will get the answers we can provide to him. Who comes here mocking us for believing in "magical beings", "unicorns", or for being "less intelligent", shouldn't expect any better treatment. You reap what you sow. People should learn some basic manners if they want to properly communicate with the society.

Christianity used to be the kinder religion. It used to offer something special in comparison with everything around it. Nothing was better. But now, with so much at their finger tips, the tolerance movement, knowing there are nice people in this world who don't believe in God. Knowing more about other religions. Christianity needs to start being viewed as compassionate again... And as a Christian I know you are going to say "But we are!" but you guys need to make this more obvious to an Atheist who have already lost their faith... probably in humanity in general.

I JUST DON'T GET IT.

Why do you expect the christian to be always begging you to understand...why? I mean an atheist is not my problem, what he believes is not my problem either. If someone is interested he should ask, if not, hell no ones is trying to convert you on a gunpoint. I dofeel compassionate for a lot of people but there is a limit to it and that ends when someone does not want to understand and just make fun or mock. And I have atheist friends.

You asked me for help when you came here, tell me what insult did I do to you while helping you, did I mock you or tried to help you? Do you want to go over those emails again. So please, if you feel special warmth for fun making atheists, fine, no one is stopping you, but don't preach that as in all atheists are atheists because Christians went mad. That is just not true or even a proper excuse. I know a person who went through brutal times like your husband, he is a strong christian, because he saw the un-justice of it and realized how much God stood in contrast, so "I had it bad" is not a justifiable excuse to shut your eyes. I know people who have experience otherwise. And while what happened to your husband was horrifyingly wrong. I still do not find that a wise choice, an obvious one, but not a wise one. but this happen with people who have traumatic experiences, and he has my sympathies.

to your post in an another thread, "I do know good atheists, I have atheist relatives as well"